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Thread: Hello new member here and thanks.

  1. #11
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    If the ammo is usable in this gun 23.00 for box of 20. New brass.

  2. #12
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    No way!! The 8x51R French Lebel offered by PRVI Partizan or the 8x50R Austrian Mannlicher are rimmed cartridges with a big base diameter. They would be just as unuseable like .308 Winchester ammo is in your .30-30 Winchester 94. Your Schmidt & Habermann m21 takes the 8x51 Kurz Mauser, a rimless case with a "standard" base diameter. Only DWM offered it in the 1930s. As this cartridge is out of print since 1945, handloading is the only option. .308 Winchester brass may be reformed. The cartridge used .318" bullets. DWM advertized these ballisics in 1934:
    10.2 gramm = 157 gr steel jacketed bullet at 2150 fps or
    12.7 gramm = 196 gr steel jacketed bullet at 2100 fps,
    Last edited by Axel E; 09-01-2015 at 07:51 PM.

  3. #13
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    Well the truth comes out. Thanks so much for that info. thats what I've been trying to find out. I'm a rookie. Trying to learn.

  4. #14
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    Obviously E.Schmidt & Habermann stocked your rifle to R.Bessel's special order. "Stutzen" full stock with Suhl style oval panels, foreend fastened to barrel with cross key. ESHA most often built the guns to the design and "house style" of the "Name" retailers who ordered them.

  5. #15
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    So it has very little value. It's a neat rifle.

  6. #16
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    50bigblock,
    No, the 8x51 is not the same as the 8x50 Lebel at all. The 8x51 is basically a shortened 8x57, which has a casehead diameter around .468", and is rimless.The Lebel casehead diameter is about .536" and is rimmed.
    Mike

  7. #17
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    I have been looking to see what this ammo looks like. Any threads out there. Or is this rifle not worth the effort?.

  8. #18
    Assuming your rifle is in sound condition loading for it isn't a difficult proposition with proper dies. Regular 8 x 57 cases and several others having similar basic dimensions can serve as the donor brass to resize. It's hard to speak of correct bullets for a rifle not in hand, but .32 Winchester Special might be acceptable; otherwise there are custom .318 diameter bullets available. The rifle would be to some shooters an interesting caliber built on an interesting action. Dan

  9. #19
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    50bigblock,
    As Axel said and Dan referred to, you will likely be able to use 308 Win. cases. In dealing with metric and wildcat cartridges, it is not often we have a donor case that fits as well as the 308. If you don't have a 308, I suggest you borrow a fired case from one of your friends and see if it chambers. If it does, you could just directly fireform once fired cases to your rifle. If it won't quite chamber, try an unfired or FL sized case. If they will chamber, even with effort, then you can fireform them. If they still won't chamber, the body length may be too long, or the shoulder diameter may be too large. If so, respond back and some of us will make other suggestions.
    Mike

  10. #20
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    Sorry, Mike, but it will not be as easy. The 8x51 Mauser kurz has about the same overall length as the .308 Win, but a shorter body length combined with a smaller diameter at shoulder.
    The dimensions compared, 8x51 / .308:
    Length to shoulder: 1.50 / 1.56"
    shoulder diameter: .439 / .454"
    length to neck: 1.66 / 1.71"
    I would try to get a cheap second hand 8x57 aka 8mm Mauser, I or IS, FL sizing die, shorten it by grinding and chamfer, until the bolt closes on the resized case. Case length of the resized case must not exceed 2.0". After the first firing the FL die may be backed off the shellholder about 1 turn for necksizing. An 8x57 seating die may work as is or may be shortened slightly.

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