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Thread: Regulating my double rifle

  1. #11
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    Leatherman,
    Did you get your problem with a source for jacketed bullets sorted out? Diz has talked about bumping up .358" bullets, 200 grain bullets should be close enough to 193 grains to work. This is not my project, and I understand I don't have a say in how it's done. That said, I don't have good results with double and combination guns, using the equipment and procedure the photos seem to show. I find I have to shoot from sandbags, stacked up high enough that I must sit up more or less straight, to move with recoil in a manner similar to shooting in the field. Also, I only have satisfactory results if I hold the rifle in my hands, with my hand or wrist, rather than the rifle, resting on the bag. It's not that I don't use mechanical rests, at all, I do often find a lead sled helpful, just not here. It is not possible for me to shoot the second barrel quickly enough, if I stop to locate the first shot's impact. This is especially so if I take time to note the velocities. The only way I can get satisfactory results is to work out the variation in velocity ahead of checking for "regulation"(I admit I haven't had to contend with such variation between the barrels), and shoot two targets, one for each barrel. I shoot the first one, then the second, just as quickly as I can align the sights(or scope). I have to allow the barrels to cool to ambient temperature before the next two shots. Once the shooting is done, I can lay one target on the other and mark the bullet impact. This is the only way I can easily tell if the barrels are shooting "wide", crossing, or shooting together; with the load I'm checking. I know we don't hunt that way, it takes much more time, it takes more ammo, and my friends think I'm silly. I think I need to separate the ammo problems from the rifle problems, from the "me" problems; so I can work out solutions. If you get good results otherwise, good for you.
    I'm interested in the outcome of your experiments with 5744 and jacketed bullets, with different fillers.
    Mike

  2. #12
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    Leatherman,

    Mike has a lot of good advice regarding shooting the double rifle. My groups are better and more consistent when holding the gun in my hands rather than off the bags. The only comments I can make beyond that is the group seems to be trending to the right of center fairly evenly and a scope adjustment may be all you really need to center the group on the bull. However, the load does not seem to be working well with too much variation and it still looks like the right barrel is faster. I am wondering if throat erosion from the right barrel being normally shot more often could possibly be the cause by giving it more freebore. One thought on 5744 is that as you get close to 2150 fps in the 9.3x80R my program shows that you will only be a couple thousand pounds away from the CIP Max. That was with the RWS 193 grain jacketed bullet. Pardon me but it is a lot of speculation on my part.

    Thanks, Diz

  3. #13
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    I have read in Shooting the English Double Rifle book that indeed the proper way to shoot a double is offhand and to quickly shoot the second barrel. This is my first rodeo with a double rifle so I have much to learn by reading, advise from others with experience and my own experience with what works for me and the gun. I only have the lead sled for shooting from the bench so I was supporting the forearm with my left hand. I also shot all but the last two shot group with open sights which I know has a margin of error as I just don't shoot open sights that much and as I stated the group with the scope attached was much better than the others, almost acceptable. I need to concentrate on getting a load that is more consistent in velocity and first shoot and check velocities in each barrel . THat will tell me if there is a consistent velocity difference between the left and right barrel. Once I determine if there is a difference between barrels I will be less critical of trying to get the rifle to regulate. This is a hunting gun foremost and if it doesn't shoot 3" or better spread at 50 yards then it will be sighted in for which ever barrel shoots the best group and that will be the barrel I will use. I have only ever shot more than once at a deer maybe twice in my life and I enjoy hunting with a couple of single shot rifles so I don't see me having to use the second barrel anyway and if I know where it shoots I can try to compensate. I would just like to try some other powders and maybe a new bullet. In my experience developeing a load for my modern guns the bullet was the biggest factor in getting the best accuracy and then the powder just fine tuned it . So rather than bump up a .358 bullet I am ordering some .364 200 grain bullets from Cobra bullets. I have used their bullet in two of my other Drillings that have under size bores and I got excellent accuracy. Diz, thanks for the heads up on the CIP max problem with 5744. I may need to look at another powder as well. I have only used 3031 in my 9.3 x72 Drillings and it gave me good results as long as I have a good crimp. Anyone have any other suggestions on another powder to try ?

  4. #14
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    Leatherman,
    Just a couple thoughts, since you have good results(I do too)with 3031, it seems to be a good choice, as would any similar burning rate powder, such as 4895(any version)4320,etc. Since I'm from the "old school", I often leave out of these suggested powders, more modern ones that may perform better than the ones I use. As an example the new "CFE" powders may address other potential problems. You should, at least, try the powders you use, have plenty of, and feel comfortable with. There is nothing "magic" about any of the powders I or others use. If you listen; your rifle will tell you what it wants. I don't think there is anything wrong with Cobra bullets, I just talk about "bumping up" or sizing other size bullets, because it's fun. I don't have any good reason to think so, but I believe your rifle was regulated at a distance more than 50 yards. I suspect you would be better off trying 80 and/or 100 meters. I suspect also that it was regulated/reregulated with a scope. This would be very good, and my suspicion is because you seemed to have better luck with the scope. You may have even better results if you try it at 80 or 100 meters.
    Good luck.
    Mike

  5. #15
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    Leatherman,

    I spoke with Buffalo Arms yesterday and didn't get good news regarding the .366/193 grain bullets. The fellow told me possibly three months or more before they arrive. I kept my back order in place but will start working on alternatives. I beat the net for some and came up empty. I have a 200 grain mold and may start casting along with bumping up some .358's. Otherwise the only option seems to be factory ammo.

    I couldn't find "Cobra bullets" either. I can't really add anything further as I am working up loads too and was waiting for those bullets to arrive. So much for that idea.

    Thanks, Diz

  6. #16
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    I am so sorry I said I used Cobra bullets. I meant to say Hawk Presision bullet company. Check them out. They offer custom sized bullets in lots of weights. They even offer different thickness and hardness in jackets and lead core and you can tell them where you want he caniler on the bullet. I have ordered and used a .358" and a .352" 200 grain bullets with their thinnest and softest jacket for two of my 9.3 x72 hammer drillings that had bores of these sizes and they proved very accurate. I haven't shot any game with them but plan to get at least a whitetail with one of them someday . I like the idea of useing the softer and thinner jacketed bullets in these older hammer guns. I believe the Buffalo Arms and S&B factory ammo uses soft thin jackets on their bullets so they squish down easier in tight bores along with the design of the bullet itself. When Buffalo Arms gets the Tesla style bullet in I will stock up on them too. Let us know how it goes with bumping up .358" bullets. You might not know how the donor bullet is constructed as it will be more likely a modern pistol bullet .

  7. #17
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    Leatherman,
    I haven't used Hawk bullets either( I still have a "stash" of RWS), but everybody seems to have very good results with them. As far as donor bullets, for bumping up, any bullet 200gr or less, intended for either "modern pistol" or 35 Rem., should be fine.
    Mike

  8. #18
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    Leatherman,

    I had a falling out with Hawk a long time ago and I wish them well but don't use their products. I can make my own now and it's more fun anyway. I am not sure what speed to expect out of your cartridge but I would think as Mike suggests that anything for a 35 Rem or a really good pistol bullet would work fine. I have had some luck with the 200 grain Remington for the 35. I am refining the die set I made to try for a more two diameter style bullet. We'll see how that goes.

    Thanks, Diz

  9. #19
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    Even though I have the bullets I need, for myself, I am very interested in the process and dies. Keep us informed Diz.
    Mike

  10. #20
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    Mike, I am working on an improved nose punch that should give me more of the two diameter style bullet that I am seeking. Right now it looks like it has to be done in two steps but I will let you know how it comes out. Thanks, Diz

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