Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 44

Thread: Anyone heard of a 3.5 inch bpe cartridge - 11.88x90?

  1. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    I live near Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    461
    Axel's chamber cast clearly shows the rim and end of the chamber while cordite's does not. Placing a straight edge on the photo of cordite's casting does not show any change in taper along the whole length that I can determine. It does taper somewhat just before the rifling begins but gauging this from a photo is difficult at best. The chamber in my black powder Hanquet cape rifle is much like cordite's and doesn't show a real end to the chamber, it just goes on into the rifling. I am only going to venture to say that this may not have been that uncommon back then.

    I might also suggest trying to just run the case back into the die just far enough to hold the bullet tightly with the expander removed. With luck you may be able to bell the mouth with the regular die or make a tool for it. Putting the bullet in may be an issue though and you may have to do it by hand then straighten the bell in the sizer. This would allow you to use a larger bullet and not work the brass as much. I am sure one of the die makers would be happy to make a set as well. Mike or Sharps may have some suggestions.

    Thanks, Diz

  2. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    903
    After rereading Nathaniel's post and a closer look at cordite's chamber cast with the heavy reamer marks in the neck area I have a suspicion: Maybe a former owner of the cape gun tried to do the same Wright did to his first .577 BPE?
    Graeme Wright writes in chapter 4: "My first black powder double was a .577 x 3", and with my first attempts I could not even get "barn door" accuracy. At this stage, I hadn't given barrel size much of a thought, and just assumed it would be standard. I then measured the groove diameter – it was .594" ahead of the chamber with about .003" taper. This still left the groove oversize at .591" instead of the nominal .584". I felt that if I wanted to use cast bullets, then they would need to be the larger diameter or even up to .002" larger. With these dimensions in mind I ordered a mould that would cast .595". When the mould arrived, I cast up some projectiles and loaded some rounds , but now they wouldn't go into the chambers! The larger size projectiles made the neck diameter too large. When I measured the case neck area, I soon discovered that not even neck reaming the cases would solve this problem! The solution was to enlarge the chambers to accept the oversize cartridges. As you can imagine, by this stage, I was loosing my sense of humour with black powder rifles. The chambers were duly enlarged, and, after all this mucking around, the results were very pleasing – the rifle shot very well."
    He did the same to his next blackpowder rifle, a .500 x 3" BPE.
    I now suspect, someone wanted to use smokeless "nitro for black" loads with oversized lead bullets in cordite's barrel too. He enlarged the neck area with a makeshift reamer, and thereby reamed the chambers longer than the former 3 ╝".
    Last edited by Axel E; 01-31-2016 at 07:33 PM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Between Rolla, St. James and Salem, Missouri
    Posts
    673
    Excellent possibility!! Even during my short career with old German firearms and cartridges I've seen some "different stuff"!

  4. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    East Alabama
    Posts
    1,731
    I suggest trying Diz's suggestions. If removing the expander doesn't leave the case small enough, you can size a half inch, or so, of the neck in a 45 Colt die.I use larger than normal bullets in my 71 Mauser, to fit the larger barrel. I do this by seating the bullet with a couple lube grooves outside the case, then size the neck in a 444 sizer. This essentially makes the bullet into a "heeled bullet", with the front part fitting the barrel, and still it will chamber.
    Mike
    Last edited by mike ford; 02-01-2016 at 02:18 PM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    903
    The blackpowder M71 11.15x60R rifles depended on their 385 gr paper patched, soft lead bullets to upset from the push of 77 gr blackpowder. The colonial troops in German East Africa and the Cameroons were equipped with the Jaegerbuechse M71 until WW1. The thick smoke of black powder was the only drawback for fighting in the tropical jungles and savannas. So about 1910 Spandau arsenal tried in vain to develop a smokeless load for colonial use, without success. With the special smokeless "Kolonialpulver" the bullets did not slug up to fill the grooves any more, resulting in abysmal accuracy. So Lettow – Vorbeck's Askaris fought WW1 until 1917 with blackpowder. Mike's solution with a heel type bullet would have been out for military use because of exposed grease grooves.
    Last edited by Axel E; 01-31-2016 at 09:20 PM.

  6. #36
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Western Montana, USA
    Posts
    29
    I really appreciate all of your thoughts and ideas. I loaded the fireformed cases with 125 grains of goex ff blackpowder, two thin card wads with a cookie of spg lube between them, and a paper patched 360 grain hp. Diameter after patching was .469 and all rounds chambered just fine. Now I have to wait for the snow to melt to get access to the range.
    20160202_112042.jpg

  7. #37
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Western Montana, USA
    Posts
    29
    Oh, forgot to mention that I hand seated the bullets and then ran the cartridges up into a 450 number 2 musket sizing die which gave a nice taper crimp to secure the bullet.

  8. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    I live near Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    461
    Good going, the cartridges look great and it sounds like a workable combination. If you want to have some fun try rolling up a line of big snow balls (like the base of a snow man) and pack snow between them then shoot into it. See what expansion you could expect on game. You may need more than a couple to stop that slug though. I use this method to test jacketed bullets for it will rip the jacket off a poor one and I have been condemned by a couple bullet makers for using it when theirs failed. I never tried a lead slug so it would be interesting to see what sort of penetration you get and what the slug looks like.

    One caution though is make sure the range is safe in case it comes out the side. Thanks, Diz

  9. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    East Alabama
    Posts
    1,731
    Snow?-We don't need no stinking snow.

  10. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    I live near Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    461
    The only reason for snow in winter is to test bullets! Diz

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •