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Thread: Carl Stiegele 8.15x46R falling block

  1. #1
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    Carl Stiegele 8.15x46R falling block

    Hello, I found an interesting rifle, signed Carl Stiegele Hof Gewehrfabrik Munchen. The action is a falling block, don't know what type. There's a very neat folding rear sight that can only be adjusted laterally a few fractions of an inch, and a large tunnel front sight. If used together the rifle shoots way too low, so I fitted a lower front sight that gives me correct height for 100 meters. There's a small safety catch near the rear sight, and the usual well made German set trigger mechanism. The barrel is short, 24". The rifle is rather light, about 8 pounds, in excellent condition, and a pleasure to shoot. I wonder what is the action, Stiegele design or other, and whether it was used for target shooting, or hunting, I tend to think the later. Thanks to help received before on this forum I think the rifle was made in 1926.
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    Last edited by PatBig; 01-27-2016 at 05:34 PM. Reason: wrong pics

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    Your Keilerbüchse = hunter's match rifle (not a Schuetzen target rifle) was merely retailed by Stiegele. It was made and proofed in Zella-Mehlis 4.26 = April 1926 as gun number 363 proofed that month. The barrel was made by MM, the well known Z-M barrelmaker Max Moeller, Forstgasse 7, Zella-Mehlis. I wrote sevral times about these "Ideal" falling block actions in "Waidmannsheil", especially numbers 40,41, 42, a publication of the GGCA. These actions were all made for the trade by a shop in Zella-Mehlis, most likely Hilmar Stoetzer , Wiesenstrasse 8. At least Stoetzer obtained a DRGM for such an action in 1908. You find these actions rarely on real Schuetzen rifles, but often on Keilerbüchsen and stalking rifles signed by many "name" makers. I have encountered examples signed by Simson, Schmidt & Habermann, Greifelt, Buechel, Glaser, Miller & Greiss, Kessler, Udo Anschütz and many more. Such rifles were once imported by fred Adolph and Paul Jaeger to the USA. They were also called many different names by the various wholesalers and retailers in their catalogs. But nearly all examples, regardless of the address of the "maker", were proofed and most likely made in Zella-Mehlis. My own sorry example, a short, 53 cm = 21" barrel, hunting rifle in 8x57R360,was proofed June 1912 and signed by Alois Schulte – Herbrueggen, Essen and Zella-Mehlis.






    These true falling block actions are likely among the strongest single shot actions ever made in Suhl or Zella-Mehlis, superior here to most Schuetzen actions like the Aydt. I know about rifles with these actions in real powerfull hunting calibers like 7x65R and 9.3x74R.
    Keilerbüchsen were more often than not scope sighted, other than Schuetzen rifles. A scope mount or an fully adjustable open rear sight was most likely once clamped on the rib of your barrel.
    Last edited by Axel E; 01-30-2016 at 09:26 AM.

  3. #3
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    My Ideal action rifle is marked Fredrich Jacob Bartles....unless I got the first and middle name backwards. Without digging it out of the safe I don't remember the town. Wiesbaden, maybe?

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    Friedrich Jacob Bartels, 1869 - 1926, Bahnhofstrasse 5, Wiesbaden, took over the shop from his father Carl B. in 1893. Succeded by son Carl B. 1926. Another of the many "Name" retailers of These Zella-Mehlis made rifles.

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    Some more such actions, with 1930s bolstered action bodies, marked and maybe stocked and finished by:
    unsigned

    Kief,Peine

    Greifelt, Suhl

    Miller & Greiss, Munich
    Last edited by Axel E; 01-30-2016 at 10:56 AM.

  6. #6
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    Stoetzer 1927 ad. Note the open rear sight, clamped on the BBarrel rib.


  7. #7
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    Thanks, very useful. I am looking for an adjustable rear sight to fit the rail, not an easy task even on German sites like Egun.

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    Hello
    I have a Stotzer Perfect falling block target pistol, would this be the same Stotzer that is in the above add?
    Thanks Mike

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamoon View Post
    Hello
    I have a Stotzer Perfect falling block target pistol, would this be the same Stotzer that is in the above add?
    Thanks Mike
    Yes. Note the advertising "Scheibenpistolen" = target pistols too. But Stötzer's Perfekt pistol is completely different from his rifle action. He is better known for his target pistols now, as most were sold and marked under his own name. His rifle actions were supplied to all the the guntrade and rarely are marked "Stötzer".
    Btw, the German ö, Umlaut, either written as an o with two dots atop or oe, is a different vowel than German o, spoken about midway between English o and a.
    Last edited by Axel E; 01-30-2016 at 05:04 PM.

  10. #10
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    I have this rifle by an unknown maker. I am sorry to say some fool rebarreled it as a varmit rifle, 6mm-30 40 Krag. I have the original but the chamber is ruined. The original barrel has these markings, on the side is 8.15x46 normal 2367. Under the forend, SS, LH, Bl.G 11gr, 7.7mm, 46, 1.36, 278, 2367 & the crown over B, G, & U. I have The Standard Directory of Proofmarks by Gerhard Wirnsberger, is there a moe detailed text in English for German & Austrian proof marks.
    Thanks Mikeiimage.jpg

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