E. Schmidt & Habermann Drilling

[algmule]

Hello

A Norwegian gentleman is contemplating a purchase of this Drilling (see images). Questions are: is it a known model traded by E. S&H; did E. S&H always mark their wares with ESHA; anything else?
ESHA1.jpg
ESHA2.jpg
ESHA3.jpg
ESHA4.jpg
ESHA5.jpg

Here is what I have on the establishment E. Schmidt & Habermann: founded in 1860; 1875, Richard Stadelmann enters the company; 1899, Emil Gustav Schmidt leaves (ausgeschieden) E. S&H; 1915, Richard Stadelmann passes and Franz and Paul Stadelmann continue the business. Sorry, that's all I have for now.

EDIT: Franz and Paul were in the business along with Richard but I don't know when they entered the company.

Two further images in my next post.

Kind regards
Peter

[algmule]

Hello

Further images of an E. Schmidt & Habermann Drilling.

ESHA6.jpg
ESHA7.jpg

There are no more images, at least for now.

EDIT: and yes, we know about the proofs!

Kind regards
Peter

[mike ford]

Peter,
I am by no means an expert concerning these, but we see them from time to time marked with the ESHA, when being marketed by someone else. When they marketed their own guns and plainly marked them with E. Schmidt & Habermam I'm guessing they would not need the ESHA. If they had another Logo, the photos were not sufficient to see if is on this gun. I expect someone more knowledgeable about the company to chime in later.
Mike

[algmule]

Hello

Apparently a model 500. Next model up was 501 with engravings and automatic rear sight.

Kind regards
Peter

[chapmen]

Thats right, it should be an model 500, the model 500a had the automatic rear sight, the model 501 was made with fine wood and high class engraving.

Some facts about Schmidt&Habermann:
http://www.jagdwaffensammler.de/dril...habermann.html

My Schmidt&Habermann Drilling form around 1935 is similar marked on the barrel, but not marked with "ESHA":
http://www.jagdwaffensammler.de/dril...habermann.html


Non dated:

[algmule]

Hello

mike ford,
thanks.

chapmen,
very many thanks. You may add the info on E. S&H I posted above to your site if you wish. And yes, I can back it up. However, I need to correct myself. It wasn't in 1875 that Richard Stadelmann entered the business, it was December 1874. Another name mentioned in December 1874 is Friedrich Ferdinand Habermann. There are some words missing but I'll try to perform some half decent guess. Does anyone know if Friedrich Ferdinand is the Habermann that occurs in the company name?

EDIT: and I was probably wrong about Paul Stadelmann being in the business when Richard Stadelmann was running it. At least in 1913 Paul Stadelmann, Gewehrfabrikant, was the "Inhaber" of the establishment Fr. Zschocke's, Roschstraße 1. In 1904 that establishment is mentioned under the name Fr. Zschocke's Nachfolger Paul Stadelmann. Title of Paul Stadelmann then was Gewehrfabrikant.

Kind regards
Peter

[chapmen]

There are much more infos about the company- but i dont find the time to put them online on my site........
The history of Schmidt&Habermann is not told in two lines and is a little bit complicated.

What source you have for "Friedrich Ferdinand Habermann"?

As far as i know in 1913 the owners of Schmidt&Habermann are Franz Stadelmann, Paul Stadelmann and Richard Stadelmann.
In 1934 the only owner was Paul Stadelmann.
In 1937 Franz Stadelmann came back, the owners now again Franz Stadelmann and Paul Stadelmann.

The company was founded by Emil Schmidt 1858.

Another source says that Richard Stadelmann was the owner in 1905.

I dont have any info about the "Habermann", especially nothing in relationship to suhl and huntingrifles.

There are some white spots in the history of ESHA............

[algmule]

Hello

I need to correct myself again. In 1913, all three Stadelmanns were involved in E. S&H and the address was Roschstraße 1., same as the abovementioned Fr. Zschocke's establishment. So I was right the first time around.

Kind regards
Peter

[algmule]

Hello

In order not to leave things unchartered.

It would seem that there are conflicting opinions as to when the business E. Schmidt & Habermann, Suhl, was founded. 1858; 1860 and 1865 are the available options.

1860. Catalogue page gives this year as founding year.
1865.
Die Gesellschafter der seit dem 1. Juli 1865 in Suhl unter der Firma E. Schmidt u. Habermann bestehenden offenen Handelsgesellschaft sind der Graveur Emil Gustav Schmidt und der Graveur Friedrich Ferdinand Habermann in Suhl.
Eingetragen unter Nr. 37 des Gesellschafts-Registers zufolge Verf?gung vom heutigen Tage.
Suhl, am 18. Dezember 1865.
K?nigliches Kreisgericht, I. Abtheilung.
The partners of the general partnership established in Suhl under the name E. Schmidt u. Habermann since July 1, 1865, are the engraver Emil Gustav Schmidt and the engraver Friedrich Ferdinand Habermann in Suhl.
Registered under No. 37 of the Company Register according to today's order.
Suhl, December 18, 1865.
Royal District Court, Division I.
1869. One of the owners of E. Schmidt & Habermann (Emil Gustav Schmidt) joins up with Friedrich Jacob N?schel to establish the business E. Schmidt & N?schel, Suhl.
Die Gesellschafter der unterm heutigen Tage am hiesigen Orte unter der Firma
E. Schmidt & N?schel
errichteten offenen handelsgesellschaft sind
der Gewehrfabrikant Emil Gustav Schmidt und
der B?chsenmachermeister Friedrich Jacob N?schel hierselbst.
Eingetragen unter Nr. 54 des Gesellschaftsregisters zufolge Verf?fung vom heutigen Tage.
Suhl, den 30. Juli 1869.
K?nigliches Kreisgericht.
The partners of the general partnership established today under the name
E. Schmidt & N?schel are
the rifle manufacturer Emil Gustav Schmidt and
the master gunsmith Friedrich Jacob N?schel.
Registered under number 54 of the company register according to today's order.
Suhl, July 30, 1869.
Royal District Court.
1873. Claimed to have 40 employees. Founding year given as 1858.
1874.
Handelsgerichtliche Bekanntmachung.
Der Gewehrfabrikant Friedrich Ferdinand Habermann ist unterm 13. dieses Monats aus der hier unter der Firma
E. Schmidt & Habermann
bestehenden offenen Handelsgesellschaft geschieden dagegen an demselben Tage der Gesch?ftsf?hrer Richard Stadelmann hier als Theilnehmer in dieselbe eingetreten, welche Ver?nderungen hier unter No. 37 unseres Gesellschafts-Registers eingetragen worden sind.
Suhl, den 16. December 1874.
K?nigliches Kreisgericht. I, Abtheilung.
Commercial Court Notice.
On the 13th of this month, rifle manufacturer Friedrich Ferdinand Habermann withdrew from the general partnership existing here under the name
E. Schmidt & Habermann.
On the same day, managing director Richard Stadelmann joined the partnership as a partner. These changes have been recorded here under No. 37 of our company register.
Suhl, December 16, 1874.
Royal District Court, Division I.
1895. Emil Schmidt is noted as sole owner of E. Schmidt & Habermann, Suhl. Address is given as Rimbachstra?e 61/62. Whatever happened to Richard Stadelmann? He would re-appear.
1899.
In unser Gesellschaftsregister unter No. 37, woselbst die offene Handelsgesellschaft E. Schmidt & Habermann mit ihrem Sitz in Suhl eingetragen steht, ist heute eingetragen worden:
Unterm 1. Juni 1899 ist der Gewehrfabrikant, jetzige Rentier, Emil Gustav Schmidt in Suhl aus der Gesellschaft ausgeschieden, dagegen unter demselben Tage neu eingetreten
der Kaufmann Franz Stadelmann in Suhl und
der Gesch?ftsleiter Paul Stadelmann daselbst.
Suhl, den 5. Juni 1899.
K?nigliches Amtsgericht.
The following was entered today in our company register under No. 37, where the general partnership E. Schmidt & Habermann, with its registered office in Suhl, is registered:
On June 1, 1899, Emil Gustav Schmidt, rifle manufacturer and now Rentier, left the company in Suhl. On the same day, Franz Stadelmann, a businessman in Suhl, and Paul Stadelmann, the business manager there, joined the company.
Suhl, June 5, 1899.
Royal District Court.
1900. Richard Stadelmann is noted as sole owner of E. Schmidt & Habermann. Address Rimbachstra?e 61/62.
1909. Richard Stadelmann is noted as owner of the business together with Franz and Paul Stadelmann. Address is given as Roschstra?e 1.
1912. Same owners as in 1909, and same address.
1915.
Bei der unter No. 118 des Handelsregister A eingetragenen Firma E. Schmidt & Habermann in Suhl ist heute folgende Eintragung bewirkt worden: der Gewehrfabrikant Richard Stadelmann in Suhl ist infolge Todes aus der Gesellschaft ausgeschieden. Die Gesellschaft ist nicht aufgel?st, wird vielmehr von den beiden ?brigen Gesellschaftern, den Gewehrfabrikanten Franz und Paul Stadelmann in Suhl unter der bisherigen Firma fortgef?hrt.
K?nigliches Amtsgericht Suhl,
12. Mai 1915.
The following entry was made today regarding the company E. Schmidt & Habermann in Suhl, registered under No. 118 in the Commercial Register A: Richard Stadelmann, a rifle manufacturer in Suhl, has, du to his death, left the company. The company has not been dissolved; rather, it will be continued under the previous name by the two remaining partners, rifle manufacturers Franz and Paul Stadelmann, in Suhl.
Royal District Court of Suhl,
May 12, 1915.
1924. Owner of E. Schmidt & Habermann are still Franz and Paul Stadelmann. Address Roschstra?e 1.
1927. Same as for 1924.
1931. I cannot find Franz Stadelmann anywhere in Suhl for this year so my thoughts are Paul Stadelmann, Judithstra?e 61, was sole owner of the business. Address for the business is given as Stadelstra?e 1.
1936. Paul Stadelmann as sole owner. Address given as Roschstra?e 1. 1936 is the last note I have anything on E. Schmidt & Habermann. Information on the Internet gives the business continued up until the end of WW2.

Below some further information on Paul Stadelmann
1901.
In unser Handels-Register Abtheilung A ist heute eingetragen: an Stelle des aus der Gesellschaft ausgeschiedenen Commanditisten Zschocke ist der Gewehrfabrikant Paul Stadelmann in Suhl als Commanditist der Commanditgesellschaft Suhler mechanische B?chsenmacherei R?hmer & Co in Suhl mit einer Verm?genseinlage von 6000 Mark am 17. December 1901 eingetreten.
Suhl, 23. December 1901.
K?nigliches Amtsgericht.
The following is recorded today in our Commercial Register, Section A: On December 17, 1901, rifle manufacturer Paul Stadelmann replaced limited partner Zschocke, who has left the company, as a limited partner of the Suhl Mechanical Gunsmithing Company R?hmer & Co. in Suhl with a capital contribution of 6,000 marks.
Suhl, December 23, 1901.
Royal District Court.
1904.
In das Handelsregister Abteilung A No. 155 ist heute eingetragen die Firma
Fr. Zschocke?s Nachfolger Paul Stadelmann
Und als deren Inhaber der Gewehrfabrikant Paul Stadelmann in Suhl.
Suhl, den 27. Mai 1904.
K?nigliches Amtsgericht.
The company "Fr. Zschocke's successor Paul Stadelmann" is registered today in the Commercial Register, Section A No. 155, and its owner is the rifle manufacturer Paul Stadelmann in Suhl.
Suhl, May 27, 1904.
Royal District Court.
1909-1928. Paul Stadelmann is owner of Fr. Zschockes Nachfolger. First address Judithstra?e 61, later Roschstra?e 1.
1912. Still part of R?hmer & Co. I do not know when he left R?hmer & Co.

01-ESHAModell23.jpg
(1924)

Google Translate is responsible for above translations.

Peter