New Member looking for info

[torg82]

Hi all. I'm happy to be joining a group that specializes in German firearms. I've been wanting to join one of these forums for quite some time.

I have been fortunate enough to come into possession of a beautiful German hunting rifle which was passed down from my Great Uncle. It's easy to discern that this rife is 7x57 and was made by CG Haenel in Suhl December of 1942.

Any additional information would be greatly appreciated. I was only able to upload five pictures.

IMG_2927.jpgIMG_2939.jpgIMG_2943.jpgIMG_2930.jpgIMG_2957.jpg

[mike ford]

torg82,
You have a very nice rifle,chambered for one of my favorite cartridges.The form of the rifle(KLB) is also my favorite.I believe ammo is fairly avaliable, and I know it is easy to load for.BTW, I think it was proofed Dec 1943, rather than 42.
Mike

[torg82]

Mike,
What does KLB mean? Good catch on the proof date. I must have mistyped it. I e-mailed Haenel to see if they could provide me with more information on this rifle but I haven't heard back.

This rifle actually came into my possession from my Great Uncle, Army Ranger who was liberating Germany in WWII. Apparently, or so my Grandmother used to tell me, he pulled it off the mantle of some German officer's house.

My Grandmother was actually offered $800 for it back in the early 90s. Fortunately, my Brother and I were there to save the day and keep the rifle in our family.

Would you happen to know what the writing says on the side of the barrel in the picture below?
IMG_2939.jpg

Thanks,
Erik

[Axel E]

KLB stands for "Kipplaufbüchse" = break-open rifle. Though shotguns, drillings, double rifles and combination guns are usually of break-open design too, "Kipplauf" is used only for single barreled rifles, as here are several popular action types: Break-open, falling block or repeaters. The inscriptions are : Suhl - the German gunmaking city where Haenel was and is.
Krupp-Laufstahl = barrel steel by the Krupp steelworks in Essen, the most prestigious steelmakers in Germany then.
I don't think you will have much success asking the current "Haenel" company. The original Haenel company was amalgated into the ETW = Ernst Thaelmann Werke VEB by the GDR commies. ETW used "Merkel" as a trademark for over-unders, "Simson" for motorcycles, "Haenel" for air- and small-bore match rifles, "fortuna" for Drillings. Now "Haenel" is a trademark of "Merkel" for low-cost guns, just as "Glenfield" is by "Marlin". If any pre-1945 Haenel records still exist, they are buried deep in the vaults of the state archive.

[sharps4590]

Welcome to the board, sir! Erik, that is a sweety. The 7 X 57R is extremely versatile....in addition to being one of Mike's favorite cartridges. I'm kinda partial to it too.

[Büchsemann]

Erik,

Beautiful little Kiplauf you have there. When you have the time, do post more pictures.

Welcome to the GGCA; it's certainly the right place for a German gun enthusiast. As you have already noticed there are some very knowledgeable people among the group to include many more that you'll hear from in the future.

Mark

[Jim Cate]

Axel, I believe you are exactly correct regarding info (files) about the original C.G. Haenel records being in the Suhl Archiv. The co-author of my first Sauer pistol book, Nico VanGijn of Amsterdam, has a very strong interest in the original Haenel company. He has been interested in Haenel for many, many years. I remember very well the first time we were in Suhl together we had Abendessen with the 2 Haenel sisters, one of whom never married as far as I know. He was visiting Suhl several years before the wall came down. I do remember that when Martin Krause and I were in the Archiv basement (poorly lit and extremely dusty) looking for Sauer info (which we did find) I came across some documentation of the original Haenel company. I believe there is probably more in the 'normal' stacks that the Archiv personnel could lay their hands on also. All it takes is time and money to go dig! Hope you are doing well, JIM

[torg82]

@Mark and Sharps, thanks for the welcome. I do feel like I have found the right place to introduce my rifle back to the world.
@Axel E, thanks for the explanation of KLB.

I'll try and post some additional photos as soon as possible.

Should I try and restore this or leave it as is? I believe I've found a reputable restoration shop here in Boulder, Bertram & Company http://bertramandco.com

I know some people say leave the rifle as is.

Erik

[Büchsemann]

Erik,

Restoration is certainly a loaded subject and opinions range from those of the purist (collector type) to the mechanic/handyman that enjoys utilizing his or her gunsmithing skills on just about everything. As a collector as well as a shooter and hunter I personally steer away from messing around with original finishes and wear (cosmetic) as doing so, far more often than not, degrades the value of the firearm. Therefore, whatever the issue is, it really has to bug the heck out of me before I consider making a correction. From the pictures I have seen thus far of your little Kiplauf it looks very nice. What is it that has prompted you into considering doing some restoration work?

We will definitely need to see more pictures in order to throw our collective two cents in on this one.

Mark

[mike ford]

Erik,
I agree with Mark, I don't see anything in the photos that need restoration.
Mike

[sharps4590]

I'll have to pile in the same canoe. I don't see anything that needs done to that KLB. As Mark said restoration runs the gamut. There are those who want everything they own to look new......all the way to the other end of the spectrum...which is where I am found, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. A repair to bring a firearm into a safe, functioning, firing state is one thing, restoration on a firearm that is in good usable condition is quite another.

I like to dink with post war sports cars and a saying you often hear in that crowd is "they're only original once". For me the same applies to firearms.

Vic

[Doug Kellermann]

Erik,
What are you going to do with the kiplauf, e.g., hunt, target display only? The answer to that questions should give you insights into what work needs to be done to the gun.
Doug

[torg82]

Attached are some of the photos of the damaged areas. At the bottom of the butt. The clip release mechanism on the forestock is loose and shifts out when activated to break the rifle down. Scuffs on the muzzle.

Also, someone pointed out to me that this rifle had never been sighted in. The rear sight didn't have a groove and the front sight still has the metal to remove it for modification.

IMG_2999.jpgIMG_2998.jpgIMG_2996.jpgIMG_3004.jpg

[mike ford]

torg82,
I would lean toward a repair rather than restoration. It could be sighted in and the front sight completed at the same time. I don't see a real problem with the forearm latch( I admit I could tell better if I had the rifle "in hand").It looks like the front screw needs to be turned in tighter, but it may then stand proud of the surface. Check if the front and rear screws have been reversed. If they were, and this happened at the engravers, the end of the other screw may have to be engraved( very simple). Unfortunately, it may be necessary to replace the buttplate, or at least cheaper. The idea is to do what is necessary, but not make it obvious. Advertisers in the WAIDMANNSHEIL Trade Directory should be able to do this work, if you don't have a local workman you know and trust.
Mike

[Büchsemann]

Erik,

Well here goes my two cents ...

Everything I see in your last group of pictures (areas of concern) are all very minor. A talented craftsman skilled in the "proper" ways to repair the toe of the stock and the butt-plate cannot make it new but with a good eye for matching the color and grain of the wood as well as good knowledge of repairing chipped butt-plates can make the toe repair barely noticeable. It may not be that difficult to find a replacement for your butt-plate but first off I would look into repairing it; such would save on the hassles of fitting a new one, matching the profile and clocking the screws. Epoxies and the "secret additives" used by many familiar with repairing the old horn butt-plates work remarkably well. Splicing a piece from another, if available, can work very nicely as well. The chip in the wood at the toe is small in comparison to many I have seen over the years thus the repair, if done right, wouldn't be a big deal at all. I personally would leave the scuffs on the muzzle alone and the other issues with the sights and screws are very easy to address. Let us know your rough location as some of our members may know of a good craftsman, familiar with these issues and "collectable" firearms that can help you out. A well-known name in our circles is NECG (New England Custom Guns) as they do repairs such as yours, and other work that is far more complicated, on a regular basis. What makes them stand out among this crowd is they specialize in German/Austrian firearms. Your little Kiplauf is a very special piece that deserves things being done correctly.

Regards,

Mark

Late observation:

I see that your location is noted as Denver, CO. It seems to me there are quite a few gunsmiths in CO. For a starter, if you don't wish to ship your gun anywhere (such as NECG), try calling some of the members of the American Custom Gun Makers Guild in CO and listen to what they have to say about restoration expertise in your area. Listen close and check references, maybe "the guy" isn't that far from you. Click on the link below for some numbers to call:

http://www.acgg.org/index.php/view-p...it=30&start=60