Karl Kelber, Gewehrlauffabrikant

[algmule]

Hello

Although he has been discarded as being the man behind the double-K marking(s) it may be of interest to anyone following the thread that there still was a barrel factory “run“ by Karl Kelber in early 1977. Same location as the one given above.

Also: as I was looking for information on B?hag yesterday I found there was still a Gewehrlauffabrik Louis Kelber in Suhl in the mid 1950's.

Peter

[algmule]

Hello

As 1925 is the earliest (so far) for the double-K marking I hereby add R?merwerk to my list of manufacturers of rifle barrels around 1925. Do I believe R?merwerk can be connected to the marking in question? No. Maybe. Not likely.

If I remember correctly I've seen two different trademarks for R?[h]merwerk. When I'm back on the computer I'll check to see what's in my library.

Still interested if anyone should have a barrel with the K-marking(s) proofed before 1925. In fact, any barrel with a single or double K-marking regardless of year of proof would be welcome.

Also: I know R?[h]merwerk was around before 1925.

Yes, it's a rainy day today
Peter

[mike ford]

Peter, the problem of trying to ID barrel maker's marks by the rifles proof date is that barrel blanks may be held "in stock" from several to many years by the gunmaker and may even have been finally used by a successor many years later. This was likely more common post war, when parts were very scarce.
Mike

[algmule]

Hello

Mike,
I'm well aware of the difficulties. The following is an example (just one example) of what one might encounter when researching.

Before Louis Kelber moved house to Lilistra?e he shared the address Tr?benbachstra?e 1 with a widow Lisette Kelber, maiden name Krell, who was the owner of the property at No. 1. Krell, another of many K-names in Suhl. There were a number of Krells with the title B?chsenmacher in Suhl over the years. Do I conclude anything out of this? No. The whole point of doing research is to not conclude anything. That's why I have only listed people I've found in sources in order to maybe one day carefully consider what to conclude.

Karl Kelber, Suhl, or one of the Karl Kelbers in Suhl may be more appropriate, was once listed as living two doors away from one of the B?chsenmacher Krells on Grosse Kelberstra?e. Most of the Krells stayed in this street over the years. This one Karl Kelber started out as factory worker and eventually, via metal worker, became a "rifle polisher". He, however, did not stay put on Grosse Kelberstra?e. The time frame for this Karl Kelber is way before 1925. Still not concluding anything.

Research is fun. Not today, however. It's not raining.

No, I do not connect the kelber in the street name and the Kelbers involved in the gun trade. It' just coincidence.

Pretty proud of the split infinitive above. Raymond Chandler once wrote to his split-infinitive-correcting publisher, "When I split an infinitive, God damn it, I split it so that it stays split."

Peter

[algmule]

Hello

He's already mentioned in the thread, but now I'm adding him to my 1925 list of suspects: Fritz Seyffarth, Zella-Mehlis. Business founded 1914 in Zella St. Blasii (according to an ad from him) but he is mentioned as Rohrbohrer in 1912-13, so he was with certainty working for some company before he started out his own business. His business made it into the post WW2 era but I'm not so sure he kept up barrel work all through the business's existence. In fact, I'm not sure he kept it up up until 1942, but that's speculation, so in order to not conclude anything, I'm not.

EDIT: Fritz Seyffarth, Gewehrlauffabrik, Zella-Mehlis, 1941.

Peter

[algmule]

Hello
Maybe, maybe not a contender.
Edmund Keller, Rohrmacherei/Rohrzieherei, Zella-Mehlis.
He was around in 1925 (don't know when he set out). He made it into the post-WW2 era. With the title Rohrmacher in Zella-Mehlis in 1949.

He's not really a suspect. It's more like he's peeking around corners. On the sly, so to speak. Why? Late 1930's don't list him owning an establishment.

Also: sometimes the forum log me out without me wanting to logout. Now it doesn't believe I know the difference between it's and its. When I write its, I write it so that it stays its. Or so I thought......

Peter

[norsk]

Here are the "double K" marks on the shotgun barrels and the rifle barrel of my Franz Merkel drilling, made in Udo Anschutz's shop, proofed in February 1941n in Zella-Mehlis.
shotgunright.jpg shotgunleft.jpg riflebarrel.jpg uaz.jpg

[algmule]

Hello
norsk,
thank you. Interesting "doodle"-mark after the grenade mark. I've seen it before but don't know what or who it represents. Also: I note another Zella-Mehlis proofed gun. I believe it's safe to carefully conclude that whoever the double-K mark is for he supplied work for both the Suhl and Zella-Mehlis gun trade. Anyway, I never believed there was any "hard border" between the two.

Another also: I decided to take the research down the Kerner route. Conflicting findings to say the least. I did, however, turn up another suspect but need to further look into that. He fits the time frame 1925-1942, though.

EDIT: no, the new contender is not a Kerner.

Peter

[algmule]

Hello
1928. Also wears the WK (Wilhelm Kelber) mark and the mark with the K in a W mark that's in a previous post. To me it's not the same mark as the "doodle-mark on norsk's Drilling.



Peter

[algmule]

Hello
chrome_screenshot_1661081963306.png

EDIT: 1929. Wears the double K:s and the EKS mark.

Peter

[matesar]

In my opinion, "KK" is not a barrelmaker's mark. It is often found nearby proofmarks.
Is it possible that it could be mark of the quality of the barrel material for example? I have the O&U gun from 1932 (post here 2015),
that has makers marks on the rifle barrel ("WK") and the mark "KK" is again near the shot barrel proof marks.

Martin

[algmule]

Hello
chrome_screenshot_1663158838536.png

Peter

[algmule]

Hello
Maybe remains of the K:s. On a G. A. Nothnagel/B?hag Kipplauf. Passed proof in Suhl in 1958. Also wears repair proof mark from 1982.

chrome_screenshot_1666249154590.png

Peter

[algmule]

Hello

EDIT: Louis Kelber also had a Metallwarenfabrik in 1949 (Suhl), at Tr?benbachstra?e 2a.

Not sure what to make of the following:

HR. A. 633. Veraenderung: Firma Louis Kelber, Gewehrlauffabrik, Suhl. Die Erben Ernst Kelber, Karl Kelber und Alfred Wolf des durch Tod ausgeschiedenen Louis Kelber fuehren als persoenlich haftende Gesellschafter Firma unter: Louis Kelber, Suhl, sort. Offene Handelsgesellschaft. Jeder Gesellschafter ist allein vertretungsberechtigt. Die Prokura des Alfred Wolf ist erloschen. (18. 2. 49)
[Regierungsblatt fuer Thueringen, 1949]

I know what it means but cannot work out why there were two businesses, a Metallwarenfabrik and a Gewehrlauffabrik. Maybe just two different listings. Also: I did not know that Alfred Wolf had been involved.

Peter

[buckstix]

hello all,

This post was pointed out to me by kuduae. My 1921 Schuler 11.2x72 barrel also has this mark. Krupp barrel is dated 10/21 and has August Schuler's stamp as well as 2 of these "K" stamps. Is there any more info as to exactly who they are from?



http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/sch...arrel-mark.jpg